Over the last few months, several of the sisters in the community of believers I am a part of have given birth to new babies. Once again, I am reminded that the process of birth is something miraculous. It is an act created to communicate a greater spiritual reality. As I have observed these miracles these last few months, I have also come to realize just how deceived I have been regarding the miracle of new birth. I had bought into a devastating myth about the birthing process, and I was not even aware of it! Thankfully, I am beginning to see this ‘myth’ for what it really is. I’d like to expose this ‘myth’ in today’s post, and also shed some light on the true miracle of birth.
Ridiculous Conversations
Many new parents that I speak with tell me that they are looking forward to the day when their baby is eventually old enough for them to have in-depth conversations about matters of life and faith. When my daughter was young, I used to have the same thoughts as I tried to imagine what those conversations would be like in the future. I am pretty confident, however, that no parent will ever have a conversation with their child that goes anything like this:
Child: Mom & dad, thank you for predetermining my choice.
Parents: What honey?
Child: Thank you for making me choose the right decision.
Parents: What decision?
Child: My decision to be born.
Parents: ?
Child: It seems that you already predetermined that I would *choose* to be born. Thank you.
As you can see, that’s a pretty ridiculous conversation that would never happen. Another ridiculous conversation that would never happen might also go something a bit like this:
Child: Mom & dad, I am so very thankful.
Parents: Oh really, why honey?
Child: Because you gave me the freedom to *choose* to be born.
Parents: ?
Child: I’m just glad that you didn’t cause me to be some kind of a robot, rather, you let me *choose* whether or not I wanted to be born. I am glad that I *chose* to be born.
Can you imagine your child ever saying anything like this to you? No, me either. Obviously, babies have no ability to choose their own birth. Remember, physical birth is simply a shadow of a greater spiritual birth. Unfortunately, the faulty thought process found in these two ridiculous conversations form the basis of evangelical thought and teaching when it comes to the reality of being ‘born again.’
There are many lies that prop up the evangelical system. Some evangelicals have bought into the kind of ’reformed’ calvinistic thinking that was illustrated in the first fictitious conversation, and others have bought into the ‘free-will’ kind of thinking that was illustrated in the second fictitious conversation. Nevertheless, both lines of thinking are essentially the same when it comes to understanding what it means to be ‘born-again.’ They both are based on a very devestating ‘myth’.
The Myth Of Human Involvement
It stuns me how similar evangelicalism is to the religious system that was in operation during Jesus’ day. When Nicodemus approached Jesus seeking answers to life’s questions, Jesus said something quite profound to him. Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again. Nicodemus, being the highly trained religious man that he was, immediately translated Jesus’ words to mean that he had to figure out how to *do* this. The ridiculous thought of climbing back into a physical womb actually crossed his mind. How else could a person *do* the act of being born again?
Jesus quickly dismissed this kind of religious thinking by telling Nicodemus that if he didn’t understand the basics of physical earthly birth, how could He speak with Him about greater spiritual realities? (John 3:3-12) In human physical birth, the one being born is acted upon. The one being born does nothing. At just the right time, the one being born is thrust into a new world by the mother. The baby had absolutely no decision (predetermined or free-will) in the process. This kind of reality goes against the religious thinking that Nicodemus was operating in, and it also goes against the religious mindset that is foundational to evangelicalism.
What Must I Do To Be Saved?
This question is impossible to answer, and it gives evidence to faulty religious thinking. Whenever someone asked Jesus this question in the gospels, He always responded by telling them to *do* something they could not do. For the rich young ruler, this meant selling all his possessions and following Christ. The rich young ruler had mistakenly thought that he had successfully obeyed all the commandments. Jesus’ instruction to him to sell all his possessions simply exposed the fact that he was guilty of breaking the first commandment.
The same can be said in regards to the commands to love God and people. We have no ability to do this as our human nature is not capable of divine love. Jesus was not telling us to love by our own actions and life, rather He was showing us of our inability to obey even the two basic commands that the entire law stands upon. Simply put, we can do *nothing* to be saved.
I find it ironic that many evangelicals who emphasize passages like Ephesians 2:8-9 (which state that we are not saved by human effort) seem to be the first to tell people *how* they can be ‘saved’. For example:
Preacher: Bow your heads and close your eyes. Repeat after me: I am a sinner. I need your grace.
Congregant: ” I am a sinner. I need your grace”.
Preacher: I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again on the third day.
Congregant: “I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again on the third day”.
Preacher: Please come into my heart.
Congregant: “Please come into my heart”.
Preacher: If you just prayed that prayer with me, raise your hand. Welcome to the family. You’ve just been born again!
The reason this sales tactic is so popular and widely accepted in evangelicalism is because it appeals to the religious nature of *doing* something to be ‘saved’ or born again. It appeals to the myth of human involvement. Again, when we understand the example of human birth that Jesus used, we will know that babies are born entirely because of the decision and labor of another.
Even though John’s gospel states that we became children of God entirely because of God’s will, not our own, (John 1:13) it is at this point in the conversation that people like to quote Romans 10:9-10 which states this:
…if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation”.
Those with an institutional religious grid will read this passage as an external checklist, so to speak, instructing them how to ‘do’ being born again. Obviously this is an incorrect way to see this passage. Romans 10:9-10 is correctly understood as a description of what it looks like when a person’s heart is being awakened to Jesus Christ. In Matthew 16:16-17, Peter confesses with his mouth what His heart believes about the reality of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ response to Peter’s declaration speaks volumes. Jesus said to Peter that flesh and blood (humans) did not reveal this reality of Christ to Peter, rather the Father was the one to give Peter this supernatural revelation of Christ. Peter was being awakened to this reality supernaturally through no effort of his own. It is not different with us.
This is what it looks like for our hearts to believe and our mouths to confess. This is what it looks like for us to be ‘born’ from above:
- A woman is in distress with contractions (birth pangs).
- The woman labors until the baby is delivered from her old world (the womb) to a whole new world outside of the womb.
- The baby suddenly realizes her new environment and opens her mouth to express her new reality.
When Jesus told Nicodemus that we needed to be born again, did you know that He was not telling Nicodemus something that he needed to *do*? Rather, He was simply stating something that needed to occur. What kind of parent places the burden of birth upon the the unborn baby? The Lord Himself is the one who births us into this new world.
When the baby leaves the birth canal and enters the world, they open their eyes to their new realm. They breathe in this new substance called air. They open their mouths and verbally express their awakening to this new world. This occurs to the baby. The baby is not doing this by any decision or action of its own. The baby is simply responding to the new reality of life.
In the same way, we are ‘birthed’ *into* a new world inside of Jesus Christ as the scriptures describe us as being placed deep inside of Christ. ‘In’ Christ is the fullness of the Godhead. As a result, we are literally birthed *into* the most perfect family of Father, Son, & Spirit.
As the baby is awakened to this new world, the baby begins to nurse from the mother and sleep in this new world. The same is true with our new life in Christ. We eat from Christ’s very own life, and we rest in Him.
Dear brothers and sisters, just as a baby can do nothing to be born, neither can we. We do not ‘birth’ ourselves, or others. The more we rid ourselves of this ‘myth’, the more we can get back to nursing and resting in our new world:)
For the new birth,
Jamal Jivanjee
Well my brother I thank you for your loving insight, and the Life that is expressed from you.
Recently as a group of saints were gathered and we were sharing this Life we have with *one another* the Lord directed my attention to a lady that was *very pregnant*.
He spoke to me and said Sarah is a the church. That just as this new life is within her, this new life is totally dependent upon her, just as you are on me. Additionally as the Lord continued to speak to me about Sarah, it became clear that this life within her is resting inside of her, and we rest within Him. Just as this new life within Sarah is nourished we also have all needs supplied for growth and development. Just as this new life within Sarah is in her and they are one, one day they will meet eye to eye and rejoice.
In your blog you have exposed the religious systems core theology, and it is a house built upon sand.
The absolute key is to see that “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”
Just as our natural birth is a gift from our parents, our birth from above is a gift.
Amen Jim, thank you!
Hey, Jamal!
I think I understand what you are saying, and I think it makes a lot of sense. My question is regarding things like water baptism. I do get that we do not birth ourselves, as it were. How, then, do you see something like baptism in this relationship? Do you see it as our acceptance of the fact that we have already been born again, or do you see it as something else entirely?
Eager to learn.
Thanks for sharing!
Shane,
Thanks for reading, and for your question. This is a principle that I have found to be true. External actions do not determine internal reality, but simply reflect internal reality. The same can be said about water baptism. I hope that makes sense.
Very good Jamal. You have stated this well and have set the table for more insight as to how we continue after birth. I can’t wait to hear you expand on this if you will.
Love you !
Love you too Vinny. Thx for reading. Sounds like a suggestion for a follow up post:)
Ya I’m not known to be subtle
Ya my mind raced with other implications but as always as the Lord leads YOU.
Well said, Jamal!
I tell you, I thought you were joking about the “repeat after me” rhetoric of the preacher and the congregant, I even chuckled a little. But as I read further, I understood that you were actually serious. How shocking, and how utterly sad that the minds of these persons are not yet in renewal through Spirit, and the eyes of their hearts are closed to Reality. Your words brought such a deep grief to my heart that I stood quiet and still, and had to wait to reply with this comment. Why such a tremendous grief? Because they have not heard the real Gospel, and are living an illusion from within the dark mind of the flesh. This is the reason of the proclaiming of Christ through Father’s sent ones, His apostles, which are sent out to the world FROM OUT OF THE BODY OF CHRIST to preach Him, which is the Actuality of preaching, as also did the Twelve in the Beginning.
Amen Kat!
Well said sister:)
There are many questions for me about this. There is one fact that is different in our new birth – we are conscious, therefore we do have the ability to make choices. Please explain who gets born again in this line of thinking. Does God choose who will be born again or do all people get born again?
I have the same question as Ron. I understand the illustration, and I think it is on the right track. While I know this is not the direction you meant, it almost sounds like pre-detestination.
If we are sticking with the idea that what is “known” helps us know what is “unknown”, then maybe it goes like this: We all know what it takes to produce a child, but a child is not produced every time a husband and wife have sex. If the conditions are right, a baby can be produced. Do you think this could also be true in spiritual terms? Perhaps God is always spreading seed, but perhaps the seed does not always become fertilized. It always starts with God, but as in the parable of the sower, the conditions for growth may vary. And there are so many variables.
Does this make sense, or does it miss the point?
Please see my response to Ron posted here below.
Ron,
I have found that whenever my preconcieved ideas are challenged, I am tempted to draw hypothetical conclusions that seem unaccaptable. This allows me to dismiss what is being said out of fear of the imagined implications. This is a typical religious response that is rooted in fear.
Even though something might upset our preconcieved ideas about something and bring up more questions, this does not mean we have to figure out the answers to all the questions before we consider what is being said.
In the same way, your questions about ‘Who gets born again?’ or ‘Do all people get born again?’ are irrelevant to the claims made in this article. It is an attempt to not deal with the heart of this article.
With that said, let me ask you a question that is actually on topic with this article:
What did you *do* to birth yourself? What work did you *do* to bring salvation to yourself?
So you are not going to answer the questions. Instead you decided to attack my thinking as religious. Are you above being questioned? Are you afraid to answer the questions? Is it just easier to look down your nose at my concern for your lack of clarity?
If I see two people driving separate cars the wrong way down a one way street, I don’t have to know how to drive to know they’re doing something wrong.
I think this is right on, Jamal. I was just talking to someone about a similar topic and the Scripture where Jesus says to forgive one another “in your heart”. The discussion was that one doesn’t say they forgive someone and then feel it in their heart because they verbalized it; rather, one’s heart attitude towards the other person changes over time and then you realize that you have forgiven them in your heart and you can then confess with confidence “I have forgiven you”. But the forgiveness is really an internal work of the Spirit.
I hope that makes some sense. These are difficult things to explain…
Great and very helpful example Mark. Thank you!
My new birth experience is a great example, Jamal! And all these years I’ve let it make me feel like an oddity. I went to a Bible study with some friends from high school just before we headed off to different colleges. These girls were already saved. At the end of the teaching, we had our heads bowed. I have no idea what was taught that night, or what was prayed. I do know that I prayed what was in my heart, “I want what they’re talking about.”
It was years later, and I was involved in a church. Something came up that made me say to the Lord, “I know I’m saved. But when did it happen?” He reminded me of the Bible study. By this time, it felt like such an inferior salvation experience because it was neither the result of my “being in a gutter” type of experience and knowing my need of a Savior (as is the case in so many of the publicized testimonies), nor of a prayer led by someone else.
Oh, thank God for His wonderful mercy and His amazing grace, and the wooing of His Spirit! Jesus, the Savior – no help required.
Amen Kay, thx for your comment:)
Jamal,
I stand a bit convicted, I must admit. I hover a little more towards the free will camp. Although, I also cringe when I think of all of the times I have heard people pray the “sinner’s prayer” and then call it a day.
But, I need only look to my own moment of birth to know how uniquely the Father calls each of us. I had no say in the matter, to be honest. I was brought along by the Holy Spirit.
This does make me think of my own children, my oldest of whom has a clear relationship and love for Jesus Christ. She was never “introduced” to Him per se. She simply knew Him. Before she speak she could say “Jesus.” The Spirit brought her revelation. But, when she was older and wanted to talk about how she could spend forever with Jesus (her words, not mine) I did pray with her. That was my inclination and response. I don’t think it was wrong to do so, but I also know the Father was already revealing Himself to her.
Great example Nicole, thank you!
Jamal,
Thanks brother for your insightful words. I see so many times in scripture where our loving God takes the “known” – here physical birth to teach us about the “unknown” or spiritual things. It just makes so much sense.
Jan, nature can teach us a lot of things if we’ll drop all the religious ideas that deny what is painfully obvious. I’m glad this encouraged you.
Do you think Paul and Silas were off the wall? ~ And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30, 31). I would have to repeat Ron’s question is the whole world born again? ~ sincerely JPS
JPS,
Thanks for your comment. I’m wondering, however, if you actually read this article closely. The passage you cited in Acts 16 is almost exactly the same as the passage that I actually addressed in this article. Paul says almost the exact same thing to the believers in Rome in Romans 10:9-10. Maybe you missed what I said. The same applies to the passage you cited in Acts 16. Here is what I said:
“Those with an institutional religious grid will read this passage as an external checklist, so to speak, instructing them how to ‘do’ being born again. Obviously this is an incorrect way to see this passage. Romans 10:9-10 is correctly understood as a description of what it looks like when a person’s heart is being awakened to Jesus Christ. In Matthew 16:16-17, Peter confesses with his mouth what His heart believes about the reality of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ response to Peter’s declaration speaks volumes. Jesus said to Peter that flesh and blood (humans) did not reveal this reality of Christ to Peter, rather the Father was the one to give Peter this supernatural revelation of Christ. Peter was being awakened to this reality supernaturally through no effort of his own. It is not different with us.”
Regarding your question about ‘the whole world being saved’, please see my response to Ron’s question about this posted above.
I actually read your article a number of times Jamal and I see the congruency of the two scriptures. What I was challenging you on is your blanket statements that “what must I do to be saved” is a question that cannot be answered. Paul had no problem saying you must believe. When Jesus was asked what must we do to work the works of God, His answer, this is the work of God that You believe. When you say Jesus “Always” responded by telling them to *do* something they could not do. Then believing is one of those as well. I do agree with you that God does the drawing, birthing and gives the revelation of Christ. I just don’t agree with you on the above blanket statements.
Actually my question was not is the whole world saved but are all men born again? When you say God does the birthing? Then does He birth all is a logical and legitimate sincere question that you have not chosen to answer. Which is fine and your prerogative. Grace & Peace to you in the knowledge of Him. ~ JPS
Brother, I think you are missing the point of this article entirely. In your attempt to parse words, you are missing the big picture. Did you know that faith (our work) is actually a manifestation of Christ’s life in us? Do you have a problem with the assertion of Eph. 2:8-9 that states we are not saved by our works?
It all depends upon what your perspective is. If we look at new birth from a human perspective, it looks like ‘belief’ is a work we do. Seeing from a human perspective is actually part of the problem. When we see new birth from God’s perspective, we see that He is the one who births us and even our ‘decision’ is a manifestation of His divine life in us.
Again, the more appropriate question for you is this…what did you do to birth yourself?
Jamal, I’ve had two different people tell me, in a discussion of this post that they believe in the universalist doctrine that ALL will be saved, and it appears that this post reinforced their belief. Do you also believe this doctrine?
Hal,
You are the third person to bring up the issue regarding universalism in regards to this article. In my opinion, this is not a legitimate question in regards to this article. Let me quote for you what I said to them as the same applies to your question as well:
“I have found that whenever my preconcieved ideas are challenged, I am tempted to draw hypothetical conclusions that seem unaccaptable. This allows me to dismiss what is being said out of fear of the imagined implications. This is a typical religious response that is rooted in fear.
Even though something might upset our preconcieved ideas about something and bring up more questions, this does not mean we have to figure out the answers to all the questions before we consider what is being said.
In the same way, your questions about ‘Who gets born again?’ or ‘Do all people get born again?’ are irrelevant to the claims made in this article. It is an attempt to not deal with the heart of this article.
With that said, let me ask you a question that is actually on topic with this article:
What did you *do* to birth yourself? What work did you *do* to bring salvation to yourself?”
Jesus didn’t leave it to our “choosing” when it comes to summing all things into Him;
“When I am lifted up I will draw all people unto myself.”
Paul understood what Jesus meant by that and it is why he was able to write in Romans 8;
“There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
—-and there’s just nobody who isn’t in the Word by whom all things are made.
Tom
I’m reminded of the story of Isaac. We know that the Old Testament consists of shadows, figures, representatives and principles,of the reality to come in Christ. If Isaac stands for a spiritual principle, that is the principle of sonship. And from the story, we know very well, that the Lord removed all the natural ground before Isac came. He made sure that, there was zero possibility naturally, for Isac to be born.
We are the children of Abraham in the seed of faith, which is Christ.
Jesus said to Nicodemus “ the wind blows where it wishes …….”
It’s interesting that whenever you start talking such topic, before you know it, the discussion is turned into a theological one. I’m not a theologian, and admit to know nothing. But whenever I hear people start talking about predestination and free will, I’m reminded of Ephesians 1 verses 5 and 6 “ having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He made us accepted in the Beloved”
We are children by birth and sons by adoption. Sons are children who come to maturity. Paul says that when a heir is a child, does not differ from a slave, until the fullness …. comes.
It is all how we see it, with our end in mind, or with God’s end in mind. If we start seeing it with our end in mind, we go into endless discussions. But is always with Gods’s end, for His glory, for His purpose. And we know that His purpose has, is and always will be in His Son, Jesus Christ . His Son, the fullness of His Son, that’s God’s end, with Whom He will fill the whole Universe. To Him be the Glory forver!!!
“The wind does blows . . .” birth, life, rebirth, and maybe rebirth again, continued transformation and maturity are all amazing realities that are initiated by God’s amazing graciousness. Just accidentally ran across Jamal’s words because after 25-30 years of teaching and leading I too had offered the same view of these matters to folks making and wondering about this journey. I was literally born 3 months premature, my mother reminds me I was sealed for death those many years ago, but here I am 55 years later. I go back, not conscious at all of Who might have intervened, but through the lens of faith and trust I think I might know. Birth, life, even death are fraught with amazing grace. I think Jesus was saying to old crusty traditional Nic, “get in the way, when the wind blows get in the way, feel it, know it.” Thanks for the work Jamal. And thanks Marsela, may the wind forever blow into your lives.
My heart grieves for all those who have been lied too in believing that they have been saved by their own will or the will of man . “Believing” is so much more then just repeating words told to them . The miracle of being born anew can only come from Christ’s will , His Spirit (seed) imputed in us and made life through us. When we realize that we can’t obey or truly love God or others (especially our enemies) without knowing He first loved us …then we know we have His life in us.Thank you dear brother for the gift you have in sharing these insights. … They have refreshed and brought truth and life to my soul.
So glad to hear that Millie, thanks for sharing. It is an honor to know this article brought encouragment to your spirit. Blessings to you:)
I see what you are saying Jamal, we cannot birth ourselves is true. Although just as the egg in a mother’s womb must be fertilized to produce life, the seed in us must also be fertilized to produce life and the knowledge of Life in Christ that is available to all. Not all seeds are fertilized, some die, never producing Life. Though I see that the point of your blog is not who is brought to Life, but how. Our new birth is not a work of our own, but is carried out by the Holy Spirit.
Jamal
Thank you for this article! You have expressed it very well and I agree….what a myth it is!
I know in my heart that I have no understanding outside of Jesus and when He “births” life within the heart, ie: insight, revelation, light, He brings life to body and soul Without “His revelation”, I would not have received this truth and would have resisted strongly, because of how I was taught by man or just mine own understanding. It is a journey to and in Jesus as we walk this path called Life and I am finding a desire for Him to BE my Source in all things in life!
I often think we focus too much on what we “think” we know instead of Resting in Him to Be that which HE is! ALL is in His Hands. He is in control, He knows the end from the beginning. I truly know “nothing” as I ought to know but I am learning to trust in Him for He is my life, He is my breath, He is my Hope, He is my ALL! No one else can fill the need in what He can do in me and in US and He is ready and willing to reach out in love to others. We will recognize/experience/know Him in each other by the love we have for one another. He meets us because His love is just that great! I am also learning to accept people where they are “at”. When our theology/understanding becomes before and more important than others, then something is terribly wrong!
May Jesus continually reveal Himself in us for His life to shine forth to those around us. I truly know that I can do nothing but what my Father through Jesus does/produces in me, and “nothing means nothing”! It is “not by might nor by power but by my Spirit”. His love draws, and because of His love He is producing within, His love will come forth within our reactions towards others…Love is patient, love is kind, gentle, etc. “IF I be lifted up I will draw (drag) all men unto me”. May His name be lifted up, and may Jesus be glorified in US!
Hey Jamal, I’d like to examine your question, “What work did you *do* to bring salvation to yourself?”
I think a lot of the time we tend to think that if there is any human involvement in the salvation process, then this must be a *work* (something WE do), and therefore is not complete grace. But, consider the example of a child at Christmas. The parents wake her up, draw her into the living room, and hold out a big wonderful gift for her to open. The girl reaches out and grabs the gift and opens it. Now, nobody would comment on this situation and say, “Oh man, did you see how the daughter put her hands out and grabbed the gift? She really worked for that.” No, her whole life is a gift of grace, and her parent’s care and love is grace. All the girl had to do was have faith that her parent’s loved her enough not to give her a box of deadly scorpions. If the daughter boasted of her gift as if it was all her doing, she would be quite foolish.
This makes sense scripturally too. In Luke alone Jesus says, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace ” (7:50), “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace” (8:48), “Do not fear. Only believe, and she will be saved” (8:49), and many others. Jesus also weeps over Jerusalem proclaiming that he wished to gather her children under his wings but they were not willing. Let’s be honest, a plain reading of these scriptures, and John 3:16 for that matter, tells us that we are in some way involved in the salvation process.
So, there is this mysterious working of God’s drawing and grace and our resistance or acceptance. Human involvement is implied in our agency, and I think this is a beautiful thing to God. I’m reminded of a quote by John V. Taylor that says, “Love is love only when consciously and freely given, and a world of particular beings can only attain the capacity to give back love by being set free to grow towards that far off point.”
Perhaps St. Paul is trying to illustrate this very mystery when he writes to the Philippians, “…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (2:12).
I’m glad your post has brought about a good conversation. These things are important to think about.
Grace and Peace
Joey,
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate you sharing your perspective, although I think you actually missed the main point of the article. Another reader made the same assertion as well. I will paste my response to him here below as it applies to your comment as well:
“It all depends upon what your perspective is. If we look at new birth from a human perspective, it looks like ‘belief’ is a work we do. Seeing from a human perspective is actually part of the problem. When we see new birth from God’s perspective, we see that He is the one who births us and even our ‘decision’ is a manifestation of His divine life in us.
Joey,
Here is the continuation of that comment:
“Did you know that faith (our work) is actually a manifestation of Christ’s life in us? (Faith is a manifestation of the Spirit) Do you have a problem with the assertion of Eph. 2:8-9 that states we are not saved by our works?
That’s what I was explaining in my comment: we tend to think of faith somehow as a work but this is nowhere to be found in Paul, I would argue, and not even in Ephesians 2:8-9. I agree that salvation is a gift from God. There is no work that we can do to save ourselves. This gift is offered to everyone, for God wishes that all may be saved. But, I think scripture makes it clear that there are those who reject this gift and those who accept it. If this weren’t true, then it would seem to me that much of scripture would not make sense.
Menno Simons quoted Christ:
“Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . . Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
Then he wrote :
Listen! These are not words invented by men. They were not resolved or decided on in any church council. These are the words of the Son of God!
The Word is powerful and clear and means not only Nicodemus but all of Adam’s descendants who have come to a mature age. It is too bad that the Word has been hidden by the ugly yeast, the dung of human commandments, human rules, and human interpretations to such an extent that scarcely one or two out of a thousand is left who understands the heavenly birth anymore
If someone has already said this above, please forgive me. It dawned on me just how damning “saving ourselves” could be in this case. Think about a baby who is removed from the womb before it has matured. Do it too soon, and the baby dies. Why? Because it is not mature — the process of coming together has not been completed. This is not always the case, as some premature babies survive and thrive.
Is there a possibility that the human effort in “saving ourselves” could be akin to removing an underdeveloped baby from the womb? Some people “become Christians” before they are truly ready, jumping the gun into a maturity that does not yet exist for them. Had they been left alone, perhaps the maturation and developmental processes would have occurred naturally, allowing them to experience a true natural birth. As it is, so many of those who are “saved” too early die due to a failure to thrive. Again, this is not always the case, as some who “become Christians” do not fall away from the Lord, but struggle and fight, survive and then thrive. Perhaps some of us commenting here experienced that type of struggle. I think I see this in my own experience.
Does this make sense?
Shane,
I think you brign up an important point. There is always harm done when we try to force things that are premature. For example, when Jesus told the large crowd of people who had been following Him that they needed to eat His flesh and drink His blood, they didn’t understand what He was talking about. As a result, they were offended and they left. Jesus did not try to stop them or explain Himself in a way that would have been more clear. He let them go. He then told His disciples that unless the Father calls them, they would not be able to come to Him.
After that incident, there were only a few of them left. Jesus was not freaked out that His mission was failing. He did not assume that He would not be able to build His church, rather He was at rest. He had an eternal perspective, not a temporary one. Everything happens in God’s time. He is not in a hurry. At the right time, everything will fall into place, and it will be glorious.
From the Lord’s perspective, He is outside of time, and it is already done. We can rest in this reality even now.
Having read your post I was so blessed to realise that I’m not an oddball with a wierd belief. I’d like to explain what I mean by sharing what happened to me.
Way back in 1966, when I was at my mother’s funeral, God spoke to me. He just said three little words to me. They were, “I love you” Prior to that I wasn’t interested in God, but my immediate response was, “If you love me enough to tell me, I want to know you.”
In 1967 Billy Graham came to the UK. On the last night of his meetings, when he made the appeal, it was as though God got me by the scruff of the neck, lifted me out of my seat and frog-marched me to the front. When I was counseled, I was crying so much the counselor wasn’t able to help me much, but, by the end, I knew my sins were forgiven.
After that, I determined to serve God, and so, I went to Bible College. My one problem was, I just kept on sinning. I knew I shouldn’t, but I did.
I got so desperate that my grades went to pot and I began to loose it mentally and emotionally. Then a fellow student loaned me a tape he had on New Birth. as I listened, I knew that it was what I needed.
The next week, I went to a small fellowship. One of the people there said, “I cannot help you.” He took me to a room in the house where they met and left me alone with God. I knew what I needed, so, as I was on my knees, I just told God what I needed. All of a sudden I began to go through the same list thanking God that I had what I had asked for.
When I left the house that night I knew I was Born Again. I felt like a new-born baby inside. All I could say was, “God, if you don’t look after me, I’m a gonna.”
Jamal,
Brother, so if I ask you, “Jamal, what must I do to be saved?”, what would your answer be?
I mean, it is not a weird question, and is completely credible and believable. If indeed there is no answer, then why did our Father see fit to show us how He responded when asked such a question?
Thanks for reading.
To be completely honest, if someone asked me this question, I would share this article with them;)
Let me rephrase it, then:
“Jamal, I have been hanging out with you for some time now, and I see something different about you. I want what you have. How do I go about getting it?”
What you see is Jesus Christ, and He is yours. The fact that you can see Him is evidence of that. Simply rest in this truth;)
So by me saying that I see “something” in you that I want, you would elude to that “something” is Christ, and all I need do is receive Him?
Works for me. I would say that unless The Spirit of our Father revealed that “something” to someone in the first place, Salvation would be impossible.
Thanks for the dialogue, brother.
In mankind’s religious system, ‘receiving’ is an independent action we *do*. In God’s economy, however, ‘receiving’ is simply being awakened to reality.
I think you might be doing work with the metaphor that doesn’t necessarily follow from what Jesus is saying, but as long as you’re offering this as pastoral reassurance to people who are tripping, then I don’t have a problem with it. I don’t think we should stress out about trying to make it happen. I definitely don’t think it has to happen in a single event. God has saved me three different times. I usually describe the third time as being the most powerful, but I’m comfortable with not knowing definitively which time was “it.”
Bottom line is it’s a mystery, like the wind that we don’t know where it comes from or where it’s going (which is a good way of thinking about it). If we respect the mystery, then we’re not going to say because it’s all God’s doing THEREFORE those people over there who are rejecting the gospel are doing so because God decided they were hell-bound before they were born. As long as you’re leaving out the therefores we use to try to cram God’s sovereign mystery into our finite logical system, I don’t have any problem with what you’re saying.
Interesting that just yesterday I read this post along the same topic. http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/how-are-we-saved/view
I won’t say I agree with everything said in either post. However I do agree with many things in each. I also agree with some of the positive comments and a few of the negative. It seems you want to throw out the baby with the bath water (pun intended). Your idea has some merit, but as someone recent said every analogy breaks down at some point.
I see yours more as the conception of the new birth as opposed the birthing itself. An idea, a seed as one commentor said, is formed within us. A realization that our view of reality may be skewed.
I know this because I had been in church for nearly 40 years and then came to a realization that I was living it all wrong. I did find myself at a crossroads and needed to make a choice. Really the same choice we have had since the Garden. Do I choose life or knowledge?
Nicodemus had a choice and walked away empty (at the time). The Samaritan woman had a choice and walked away full. Both were awakened to a new view of life in Christ, but only one was born again.
I should probably responsibly read all the blog comments before chiming in, because perhaps you’ve already answered my questions in one of your replies to someone…however…here I am just plunging in.
Would you mind commenting more fully regarding your disagreement with the Calvinistic/reformed thinking on this topic. Do you believe that some are predestined to being awakened to this reality and some are not. Or do you believe that everyone will awaken to this reality at some point in time?
Why do you think some never awaken and some do? In the birth analogy, are those who never awaken to the spiritual reality of Jesus like stillborn babies? If so, what is their destiny?
In my own experience, I sensed that God was pursuing and or drawing me to him from the time I was born. I was always wanting to know about Him. Though I didn’t even know how to define “Him”. I was always interested, from a child, in what I chose to call at the time “religion”. I wanted it. I wanted God. I wanted to know about those kinds of things. I was born into a non-religious family, not atheists, but people who said they believed in God but that was the extent of it. No one in our family ever went to church or prayed and there were no Bibles in our house. In the 6th grade I ventured out to a neighborhood VBS at a Baptist church. With a group of children I repeated a prayer of salvation, but no one ever followed up. I continued with these kinds of haphazard contacts with organized religion. Finally during the summer before sr year of h.s. I attended another Baptist church and heard a clear message of the death, burial and resurrection. I can testify to a light going on in my heart/mind. It was exactly what I had been searching for. The preacher was pleading for people to come forward and receive Christ. I didn’t go forward because it seemed to me I had already received Him, either there in the pew or perhaps back in the sixth grade. But when the preacher called for those who wanted to be baptized as testimony of their new life, I did go forward and was baptized a week later. In the years to follow I had many doubts about my salvation, as I was in a very legalistic environment, and was constantly feeling unsaved, wondering if I had done it right, said the right prayer, and why didn’t I know exactly when I had been saved. It seemed that was a requirement. Tho’ salvation by grace was talked about, it still seemed to me there was something that we all needed to DO, and I couldn’t understand it. In my early 20′s I read The Sovereignty of God by Arthur W. Pink. I was blown away. I asked the Baptist peacher about the sovereignty of God in salvation and he told me that it was a “dangerous” doctrine, giving people who were not saved false hope and giving saved people license to sin. More time passed. Eventually I left that environment and under the teaching of a reformed pastor I finally found the assurance of salvation I was seeking, as I began to grow into the knowledge that I hadn’t done anything to save myself and that the keeping of me was in God’s hands, not mine. I’ve grown to view regeneration as God’s work of giving life to a dead person. Once that regeneration occurs, then there’s the gift of faith, received by a “living” soul. Isn’t this what Calvin taught?
Naydean,
Thanks for your comment and question. First, let me address your question about why this position that I laid out in this post is different than ‘Calvinistic / Reformed’ thinking.
Reformed doctrine attempts to explain ‘why’ a person makes a decision to be born again. They make a case that their decision to be ‘born again’ was preordained based on God’s own choosing or election of them. They would agree with Arminians, however, that people are ‘saved’ or born again as a result of their decision. Calvinists just argue that a person makes a ‘decision’ based on God’s preordination, not their free choice.
The point that I was making in this article, however, is that we are born again soley because the Lord birthed us *into* Christ Himself, nothing else. Our receiving Christ had nothing to do with our decision. In mankind’s religious system, ‘receiving’ is an independent action we *do*. In God’s economy, however, ‘receiving’ Christ is simply being awakened to reality. He is the personification of reality, and He has awakened us to this reality.
As far as your question is concerned about why some people are not awakened to Christ, or if eventually all people will be awakened to Christ, I don’t think this is a legitimate response to this article. In my opinion, that issue can distract us from the very important point that I was attempting to communicate. Let me paste here what I have said to other readers who have asked a similar question regarding this article:
“Even though something might upset our preconcieved ideas about something and bring up more questions, this does not mean we have to figure out the answers to all the questions before we consider what is being said.
In the same way, your questions about ‘Who gets born again?’ or ‘Do all people get born again?’ are irrelevant to the claims made in this article…
With that said, let me ask you a question that is more on topic with this article:
What did you *do* to birth yourself? What work did you *do* to bring salvation to yourself?”
I hope that makes sense. Blessings to you:)
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Can’t say I have that all sorted out in my mind but it’s important to me to try to grasp as much of it as God will allow me. As to your question as to what I did to birth myself. I did nothing and it seems it happened TO me. I am a grateful recipient of His mercy and grace.
Jamal,
I know I stumbled into this conversation a little late. I was skimming some of the comments to see if anyone would bring this up.
I like Naydean was a little confused with your dismissal of the Reformed/Calvinist view of predestination. The reformed view of predestination is often misunderstood even within our denominations. Your view of the reformed position is the most common misconception I run across from people who grew up outside a reformed tradition.
What I am trying to say is before you go trying to “denounce” our theology take a second look. The thing is we actually might have more in common then you thought. When my pastor explained predestination to me in my catechism classes (and my professors in theology classes) it sounded much more like the “second birth” you described in your article. Also from readings of Calvin’s Institutes and other reformed doctrine I frequently remember vehement exhortations against the “errors of the Arminians.” Perhaps the confusion stems from the often confusing and too academic language Reformed theologians and Calvinists are prone to using.
Personally I must thank you for giving me a helpful (and biblical) metaphor for explaining views I had previously struggled to articulate.
And since you have been leaving everyone with a question, here is mine: “How then shall we live?”
Ann-Jayne,
Thanks for reading the post, and for sharing your comment here. I understand what you are saying. Let me clarify a couple of things.
1. I understand the ‘reformed / Calvinist’ doctrine. I was a major subscriber to the ‘T.U.L.I.P. analogy. I was a card carrying member of that club. As I have begun to know the Lord more intimately, however, everything I am experiencing about His character and nature exposes some key errors with some presuppositions in the ‘reformed’ sectarian position. Although what I have said in this post might sound similar to ‘Calvanist’ doctrine, it is actually quite different when the line of thinking that I have communicated in this article is truly understood. That is a longer conversation, however:)
2. Thanks for asking the question “How then shall we live?” The short answer to that question is…we don’t live. We have died with Christ, and it is actually Him living and dwelling within our inner man. Our role is to cease from our religious labors and rest. As we yield to His life in us, He lives and moves in and through us just fine.
(Let me invite you to subscribe to the blog by email so you can receive future articles that are posted here. I’d love to keep the dialogue going)
Hi Jamal,
Thanks for the article; you unarguably made some good points, and I have few qualms (if any) with the things that were directly stated. This did bring up some points for discussion, though. Several others have already drawn attention to the implication of double-predestination (a.k.a. the Calvinistic belief that God chose to save some & damn others). Since logical conclusions of this sort will evidently remain unanswered, I’ll pose another thought instead.
What does a baby do to be born? Absolutely nothing (obviously). But there is still a two-party issue in birth: one gives seed, and one receives it. The Father sent the Son, and those who receive Him will bear fruit, correct? Going along with your theme of “external manifestation of an inward reality,” I would say that being “born again” is itself a fruit borne of grace and faith (rather than being the root itself). Grace is the (active) transmitter, and faith the (passive) receiver. Faith is not works (Gal2:16), but it is a decision on the part of the individual (Mk11:22). When implanted with grace/gospel/God’s word via faith, a heart “brings forth fruit of herself” (Mk4:28). See also: Gal3:2 and Rom10:17.
“The seed is the word of God” (Lk8:11, 1Ptr2:22-25)–a.k.a. Jesus (Jn1:1). A sower went out to sow, and cast the seed on all types of ground. Some sprouted; some did not. This was determined not by the sower, but by the condition of the soil. Even God’s incorruptible seed doesn’t grow or bear fruit in hearts filled with unyielding pride, doubt and unbelief (among other hindrances).
Again: a baby has nothing to do with its own birth. But if it’s our spirit that is “born again,” that doesn’t preclude the involvement of our own heart (which serves as the soil of God’s word/seed). The seed contains life which the soil can both develop and be strengthened/replenished by, but the soil must first “receive” the seed or it will be fruitless.
I don’t think this line of thought is off-topic, as we’re both referring to the process of bearing fruit. But since this picture is actually used as an analogy in scripture, I would suppose it ought to be given some credence.
Looking forward to your response; thanks for your time.
Josh,
Brother, thanks for reading and for your response. I’m not sure if there is a question for me in your statement. I would like to address the passage you brought up about the sower and the seed, however. That’s a great passage. I can illustrate how this passage has been demonstrated in my own life.
I remember a time several years ago in which I sensed the Lord communicating to me His desire for me to read a particular book. The only problem, however, was the fact that I greatly disliked the author and what I knew him to regularly communicate. I wrestled with the Lord about this book, but through two unrelated email messages that I received on the same day about this very obscure book, I got the message loud and clear. I tracked the book down and purchased it. As soon as I started reading it, I immediately became angry and disliked the book. The so called ‘truths’ that were being communicated through that book was certainly falling on deaf ears in my own life. As I read the book, I made highlights and notes regarding how wrong the book was. I thought maybe the Lord wanted me to read the book so I could ‘refute’ the book. After about a quarter of the way through the book, I decided to stop reading it. I just couldn’t stomach it anymore. I was actually going to throw the book away when I sensed the Lord ask me this question: “Are you going to throw away the book I asked you to read?” As a result of that question, I decided to simply throw the book in a box so I didn’t have to look or think about it.
About six months to a year later, after moving to a new state and being immersed in a very different community of people, I was sitting alone with the Lord one evening in my home. I was spending some time in prayer thinking and dwelling on the Lord. It was then that I sensed the Lord asking me this question:
“Where is the book I asked you to read?”
I had no idea. Before we moved, I remembered throwing the book in a box and that was the last time I had seen it. Just then, I remembered exactly which box the book was in, and where the box was located. (If you knew me, you would know just how big of a miracle that is). I got up and went to that box, and voila, there it was right on top. I began to read that book that night. I decided to start that book over from the beginning since it was such a long time since I last read it. As I read it this time, however, it was like I was reading it for the first time. I actually loved it! It was ministering to my spirit in profound ways. I also saw the comments and highlights that I made and I could clearly see that I was misunderstanding the author’s heart and intent. My old notes and highlights were simply a reaction against that misunderstanding. I now disagreed with my own comments about that book.
This book went on to become one of the most impactful books that I have ever read. I was blown away at how much I had changed in only six months. The crazy thing is this…I did nothing to change. The Lord changed my ‘soil’, so to speak, from bad soil that could not contain the seed (Christ), to good soil that could receive the seed. He has repeated this process many times in my life. Due to many difficult things that happened to me in those six months, the hard rocky ground that prevented the seed from taking root then, was now softer and ready to receive the seed. It then received the seed (Christ) and life was the result.
I hope that makes sense.
I spent all night last night reading the various discussions and this is my favorite analogy so far! I have also been revisiting a lot of books and blogs that at the time I was reading them seemed foolish and actually made me afraid quit honestly. My eyes have been opened and the Lord has been tilling my soil
There is still several things that remain a mystery to me about how we receive our revelation of Christ, but for the first time in my life I have peace about that and not fear! I’m confident He will continue to unfold and reveal them to me. I have spent so much of my Christian life in fear for my lost family members. I think somewhere in my mind I knew it was His work, but my religious flesh never wanted me to rest in this truth. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you dear brother for this healing truth.
In His Endless Love,
Jess
As a mom to 10 children the birth process is something that is very familiar to me. Just a LITTLE!
I also have a doula ministry (I work for free as the Lord leads) and help other women birth so this is also something near and dear to my heart. My ultimate goal is to help women have healthy babies. Even though birth is a very natural process the Bible also speaks about midwives being at the process to help. (Ex. 1:15) I find it interesting that a family unit at the time of birth reaches outside of itself to find help. (Just like some sow, some plant, some water…)
However, there are many technologies today that interfere with the natural birth process that many feel are dangerous to the life of the child and the mother. Many women have asked me to come along to their births to help them navigate through these things and help them know what their actual birthing rights are since they are often not told by staff. Having a doula/midwife often helps you think about what your body needs when you are busy dealing with contractions. We also know how to get contractions going again naturally when your body is at a stand still or a mother’s water has been broke for a long time and they are on a clock at a hospital in order to avoid drugs that make contractions unnaturally hard to avoid even more drugs. Often it’s like a snowball effect. We also know what positions work to get babies down and out better than laying flat on your back which is often just more convenient to doctors and staff. One of the biggest things we do is helping dads know how to be involved and where to push for relief of pain and when not to. Otherwise they often get yelled at for just not knowing how to help. Sometimes during labor we get tired and we forget to move this makes labor harder. Midwives/doulas keep us moving and any pain manageable. I have had 16-17 year olds have 100% natural births. This is the great.
However, there are at times situations where babies have a mind of their own, doctors and staff make things impossible and you have to work with what life gives you. Yes, these are good godly people too! Things that they did nothing to bring these things on themselves but I wouldn’t look at many of these things as any less than God’s perfect will for their lives any more than those that had the text book births. For example, I had most of my children naturally my 3 baby was even a home birth with a midwife so I’m pretty set on natural birth. I was planning on having my 4th at home and I felt God telling me in my spirit, “Oh, no you’re not.” I went until I was 20 something weeks with a midwife and I finally backed out and started seeing another CNM for a hospital birth. It turned out the baby was sideways when I went into labor and no matter how much we tried to flip him they don’t come out that way. His cord was also coming out first which was very dangerous so they ended up doing an emergency C-section. God knew what HE was doing. Now, this wasn’t a “natural birth” but it was the “ideal” birth for my 4th child. After he was born, whenever I nursed him whatever side was on the bottom turned black. It was like his circulatory system couldn’t deal with his head being down when I carried him. The midwife was very glad she didn’t “make him” do something he didn’t want to do. Today Jonathan has Aspergers. He is a special needs child that has done everything later than everyone else.
Now, even though the birth process is natural even natural births need some assistance. Most births, even in biblical days, were assisted by midwives that were outside the immediate family unit. I agree the more we keep technology out of it, the better. I would also say we can’t be totally closed off to the possibility of technology for the exceptions. At the same time, they shouldn’t be the norm either. These could, very possibly be, in God’s perfect will for SOME. So, would never say never either, these are just some things I have learned the hard way. Having experienced this with myself and other mothers how would I apply all this in spiritual terms?
I think the first overwhelming thing that I was faced with was God is so much bigger than my boxes. I got out of the traditional box of having babies a certain traditional way only to get into another box without realizing it. God came and even though good, he let me know that he was bigger than the natural child birth box too! What ultimately mattered was new life and he was totally in charge in however it happened. I just needed to “go with it” and realize all his children are going to need different births, different upbringings and different departures. Death in this life is very similar to being born into the Kingdom. It’s a labor until the final rebirth…
That’s enough for now…
Margaret
But what about the people who don’t get “born again”? And what about the people who are taught to believe they have been born again and to “cry” like they are born again but aren’t?
I agree with you completely Jamal. We have as much to do with being born again, as we did with being born.
In addition to the fact that it’s just not the traditional “truth” that we’ve been taught by the I/C, I think many people stumble over truths such as this bcs of the confusion generated around the theological perspective that “born+again = going-to-heaven, and not+born+again = going-to-hell”.
When in fact “it” was never about heaven & hell, and it’s always been about life and death.
* In the garden, the penalty for eating the wrong tree was death, not hell.
* In Romans 3, the “wages of sin” is death, not hell.
* So, “salvation” is from death, not hell. And salvation from death, IS life.
* Jesus said “I came to give you life”, not heaven.
* In 1 Cor 15, Jesus destroys His “last enemy”, which is death. If death is eventually, totally destroyed, then life has overtaken ALL of it.
For me, it’s key to also understand that being born was just the beginning of the new life. Then it’s time to grow up. And much of the judgement that we see in God’s word is not about casting unbelievers into hell, but it’s about correcting believers who are rebelling against growing up.
I’m not an Endocrinologist nor a medical doctor and therefor more than open to any correction on what I am about to say.
Reading through the blog and comments (which, at the very least challenged ” the faulty premise that the institutional religious system teaches about this subject.”)I was reminded of something that I picked up during my training, years ago.
While it is true that the fetus / baby has NO role in the process and decisions leading to conception and a very passive role in intra-uterine growth, it (he/she) is actually the initiator of the birth process! Not in a conscious way, but through the secretion of a hormone(s) that then acts on the mother in such a way that then starts the whole birth process.
It was explained to me in simple terms that this “stress hormone” which is secreted from the adrenals deep within the baby is its way of indicating that it is “uncomfortable where it is”, “ready to move on” and even “unhappy with its current situation”.
Could it then be that we have / had a similar “role to play” in being born again? Not so much in the form of a conscious decision, but in the form of a deep dissatisfaction that was calling from within?
(Please view this as more of a question, than a statement or opinion)
Hans,
Thanks for reading, and for sharing your comment. I wonder, do only some babies have this ‘stress hormone’, or do all babies have it?
As far as I know, this is part of the process of all “natural births”.
good points jamal.
my question was after all the reading, what was actually the real question that nicodemus had in his mind? because of what we know about the pharisees is that they was waiting of a fulfillment one prophecy of a messiah. (i think that nicodemus had the same question of john the baptist.) nicodemus started the conversation with jesus with a confirmation that god must be with him. after this confirmation jesus spoke to him without any question from nicodemus. but jesus said, without a new birth no man is able to see the kingdom of god.
but what is the kingdom of god? my understanding was to see jesus in action is a part of gods kingdom.
and then jesus talks about to be born of water and the spirit to enter in the kingdom of god. what does it mean? is this metaphorical?
vers 6: flesh give birth of flesh and spirit of spirit.
and then in vers 8 it looks to me that jesus is not anymore talking about a normal human birth. he talks about a birth of the spirit and it is with everyone whose birth is from the spirit.
it looks to me that jesus point was that we need a new birth that is born from above.
maybe i miss something. you made me really curios because i am thinking over some days about it.
and then vers 15-18 makes even more no sense about what you wrote.
15: whoever believe, believe is a verb something that i can do, right?
when i read your post it made so much sense in the beginning but after thinking i am really confused.
dont get me wrong, please. i am trying to understand.
blessings, victor. (sorry of my english)
Jamal,
I wonder if what you are conveying is that we are in fact all born again because Christ died for all of mankind. However, those who choose to accept the fact that they are born again, are those who will believe and confess this truth, so this is where free will comes in.
Am I correct in my understanding of salvation from a “born again” stand point?
So although we do nothing of our own in the “born again” process, it is up to us to accept this gift of grace that He has already purchased for us.
Susan,
Thanks for reading and for your question. I would put it like this…Our ‘accepting’ of His life and gift is really just an acknowledgement of the fact that He is birthing us into Himself. Our ‘accepting’ is like the first cry of a new born baby that is recognizing his / her new surroundings. I hope that makes sense.
The Holy Spirit revealed me one day that all mankind has been saved at the Cross, it’s just that many don’t know it yet. How peaceful I feel after knowing that
Hans comment hit on some good info. Recently while following and reading the posts of a soon to be Great Grannie friend of mine I was shocked to see the things these triplets were going through in the womb…..more shocked at what ultrasound and the professional’s were learning. One comment caught my attention when she said the babies were doing their “breathing” exercises…..I wonder how much more human involvement is going on here? Great article on the subject and point of being born again, I do get it I believe. I have always known that it’s a work of God alone to be born again, even what appears to be human involvement….” without Me you can “do” nothing” Jesus said.